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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.19 23:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 19/01/2004 23:07:46
It is interesting that missiles are getting looked at for a nerf with stated reasons like, "It only takes two cruise missiles to kill a frigate." While that may well be true a frigate can do a lot to protect itself from those missiles with either Defenders or Smartbombs or maybe even outrunning the chasing missile.
Anyone ever see how fast drones kill frigates? It's absurd it is so fast. What's more...there is very little you can do to defend yourself from them.
Target and shoot them? Like you have the time. They take forever to target and you usually have 6, 8 or more to deal with. In a frig given the range of your guns it is just silly. You'll be lucky to kill 2 before you die.
Smartbombs? Not a chance. A microsmartbomb does nowhere near enough damage to kill them quickly enough. Not to mention you have to essentially be in the drone's optimal range to use it on them. You WILL die if you try this stunt. Even a more heavily shielded cruiser with medium smartbombs will take a helluva bloody nose trying to make that work if not simply die as well.
Missiles? Maybe but with the proposed missile nerfs this probably goes out the window too. The only missile that was much use against drones was a torpedo as its splash range could get several. Splash range was nerfed and generally frigates can't carry torps anyway. So it is cruise missiles then. Of course, a standard launcher only carries one cruise missile so you will be reloading a lot and you have 8 drones chasing you. But wait! The proposed coming nerf to cruise missiles will see them not able to catch a frigate as the firgate is too agile. So how is it that missiles will shoot down drones? Answer...they won't. Or you go to rockets and try and hit each drone several times...times 8 drones.
If drones can act as autonomous killing machines then people should have an automatic way to shoot them down. The obvious answer would seem to be Defender missiles. 1 hit = 1 kill. Remember, Defenders only have a 10km range and most ships don't have enough launchers (not to mention actually having Defenders in them) to nail all 8 before they get close so some drones will get their shots in.
I have asked numerous people the best way to fight drones and the answer I invariably get is, "Kill the command ship, ignore the drones beyond trying to not let them get close."
It would be nice to have a reasonable means to fight drones. It would allow a possible way to crash a gate camp where 2 or more ships hover over the JIP with 16+ drones out. Of course, the lag in that situation is horrendous (and this would make it worse) but a ship like a Raven or Caracal could pop through and let Defenders fly clearing out the drones for follow-on ships. Yes...the Raven might die doing that and especially the Caracal probably would but it is a tactic and in a fleet engagement it may be a very worthwhile tactic.
Be fun to see if nothing else.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.19 23:37:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 19/01/2004 23:42:13
 Quote:
All well and good, but seriously, do you think it's a fair trade that a single Defender worth 110 isk can take out a heavy drone worth 100,000 isk?
Never mind that heavy drones cost the same amount as a frigate. Each. And require more skills to use than a frigate does. And are slower than frigates. And can't shoot as far. And can't sensor jam.
Sorry to hear your drones can't do all the things a frigate can do. They aren't enough as is? Yes they have a shorter range but I've seen them start shooting and hitting from 12km away. When they get close they can do more damage than most anything out there. Five Ogres do what? 200 points of damage every 2 seconds?
In real life a $15,000 Stinger missile can shoot down a $50,000,000 airplane. Stingers can be operated by any nimrod with a few minutes of training vs. the years the pilot had to train. What is so odd about a cheap Defender taking out a drone? Technically I can shoot down drones with a few well placed rail shots that are cheaper to shoot than Defenders. A laser ship can shoot them down for free.
Unless you are facing a Caracal with 5 assault launchers you will still see drones getting in there and doing damage and more often than not you'll face ships with only 1, 2 or maybe 3 launchers and likely not assault launchers and likely not all loaded with Defenders. The Drones will have a real chance still at the target ship...they just won't be as devastating as they are now.
The point is there is no real way to defend well against a drone attack short of running away. The game is more fun when there is balance. I don't see the balance here unless you or someone else can show how drones are all too easily taken out as it stands today.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.19 23:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 19/01/2004 23:57:16
Quote:
HEAVY DRONES = FRIGATES
Get that into your heads, then you can stop complaining about 8 drones destroying your little frigates.
That's fine.
What's the point? That the game shouldn't have balance? That a Thorax equates to a single ship aircraft carrier that also has the offensive punch of a cruiser all in one ship?
I didn't say to nerf drones directly. I merely want a reasonable answer to fight against them. Depending on ship confiuration and loadout I can should have the option. Right now it is frankly easier to handle frigates for me than it is to handle drones and if missiles get nerfed such that they can't hit frigates (and one would presume a smaller and even more nimble drone is even harder to hit) what little chance I ever had against drones is utterly gone.
Actually...how is it all ALL reasonable that drones equate to frigates within the confines of the game? It makes no sense whatsoever.
If you don't like the Defender idea then maybe a 'disruptor' missile that shuts down all drones within, say, a 1km radius for 15 seconds. The disruptor missile would be worthless against anything else and your drones would come back to life meaning they are still a threat that can't be forgotten. Just an idea...
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.20 03:47:00 -
[4]
Quote:
About the "but a cheapo Sidewinder can shoot down a costly airplane", think about this. There's no such thing as "balance" in real life. You know why? Because it's not a game!
Same reason why your average joe keels over from one bullet, but in a game, you can absorb several. Realism ain't fun. Semi-realism with balance is.
You were on about how is it 'fair' to have a cheap missile kill an expensive drone. I answered that and FWIW as I said a laser ship can kill one for free.
I agree it is a game and will never truly emulate real life nor should it. I'm all for the "semi-realism with balance". If you are making the claim everything is well balanced now in regards to drones I'm curious to hear it. Obviously my opinion differs but I'm keeping an open mind.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.20 07:53:00 -
[5]
Quote:
I think enough is enough when it comes to balancing frigs against battleships.
This isnlt just about frigs vs. battleships although that is part of it. Drones positively annhilate frigs. Drones eat cruisers pretty fast too and if you do the math you'll see 8 drones can drop a battleship by themselves in less than a minute (320 damange every 2 seconds...9600 damage per minute).
Is there a good way to fight drones I am unaware of? Missiles can be defended against pretty well. Any ship has its answer in another ship. Now some guy pops up with his ship plus 8 drones. You have 9 targets, you cannot lock all 9 simultaneously, 8 targets take a long time to lock, you have say 5 guns to bring to bear, missiles will soon be useless against them.
I'm missing the balance here.
As for using drones to open a hole in the Defender missile shield I say great! Why not? Good tactics. The whole trick to getting past Defenders is overwhelming them. That is one possible way to do that and for my money makes the whole tactical situation more intriguing and fun to figure out.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.20 15:58:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Defenders seem to have trouble taking out heavy missles since the patch let alone drones 
I agree. I was fighting NPCs last night and saw a heavy missile launched at me from 25-30km. I had Defenders loaded and ready and shot them in plenty of time. Never once did my Defender kill the incoming missile and in this case I had 2 Defenders chasing one missile.
For fun, since these particular NPCs weren't really a threat, I drove my ship behind a big asteroid. The asteroid was perfectly between me and the NPCs and I was maybe 1km away from my side of the asteroid. Result? Every missile the NPCs shot went through the asteroid and hit me. Dunno about the rest of you but when I shoot missiles and a roid is in the way my missiles die.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 15:23:00 -
[7]
Quote:
why use defenders when 1 or 2 torps will take care of your pest problem you'll need 1 defender for each drone and i have 9 drones. i think it will take alot longer to pop off 9 or 10 drones with defenders than it would take with 1 or 2 torpedos. just my opinion
This is generally the way to go about it but you may have missed the part where CCP is set to nerf missiles. Granted it hasn't happened yet but CCP seems pretty committed to the idea.
Essentially, CCP wants to change missiles such that the heavier sort cannot track and hit smaller ships. In essence, cruise missiles and torpedoes will not be able to hit a frigate unless the frigate is moving very slow and straight. Given that, I think it is safe to assume torpedoes and cruise missiles will have an even harder time tracking and hitting the much smaller and much more nimble drones. You are now faced with using heavies at best (and it wouldn't surprise me if they are too big as well) and likely down to rockets. It will take more than one rocket to kill a drone I believe and with little splash damage you are in the position of having to manually target lock 8 drones, fire multiple missiles at each and do so from within a range that will likely see those drones coming after you.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 16:54:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Using your arguements, I want a Frigate size weapon that, when I fight 8 other Frigates I can kill them with 1 shot. I know what, lets have defenders that shoot down Frigates.
This has to be one of the most stupid threads I have seen.
If you can't take the heavy drones on, switch your MWD on, get about 60 kms away, from their mothership, and then just slowly close the range, and shoot his drones down.
This has to be one of the most stupid replies I have seen.
Drones do NOT equal frigates nor should they.
I never said to have Defenders go after anything but missiles and drones.
Fly 60km away and slowly fly in picking off his drones? I don't know what game you are playing but unless you are fighing against someone who is terminally stupid that won't work. Any decent player will just scoop the drones back up and keep them safe. If they are in a battleship they'll thank you for going to optimal for their big guns. If they are a cruiser they can just as easily as you MWD to close distance and redeploy the drones.
The point here is any notion of using close in battle tactics are utterly pooched by drones. A large part of combat is the dance of trying to keep the other guy in your optimal while you stay out of his. If you are fighting a battleship that has big guns on you had best be below 20km or more likely 10km. If you do that out pop the drones. Within 10km your troubles will begin VERY quickly. Most ships can't even target lock 8 things at once. Not to mention they take a long time to target. You'll be lucky to waste two before they are on you and the battleship likely has more drones ready to deploy to replace the two you just shot down.
In short, you are forced to fight battleships at long range which of course suits them just fine.
Not that the whole Defender thing does not see drones made utterly useless. Defenders only engage (IIRC) out to 10km and drones are already shooting from that range. Barring a few specialized missile ships you usually find 2 or maybe 3 launchers on a ship. Even assuming they are ALL loaded with Defenders and assuming they are using Standard Launchers they can fire, say, 3 every 6 seconds. Then there is the time for the defenders to travel to the target and knowing Defenders you'll probably see more than one Defender track on the same target. Hardly a murderfest on drones even assuming an idealized ship meant to kill drones and if the defending ship also has missiles for the Defenders to worry about the system gets overloaded and the guy is in trouble
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 18:24:00 -
[9]
Quote:
well unless someone is useing a new type of drone that zig zags when approuching all drones fly straight at you and they stay very close together so launching 1 or 2 torps there way should do the trick maybe 3 after the nerf bat hits the missles
I see missiles miss straight flying slow moving targets all the time. The missile then turns around and go again and keep doing it till they hit. If missiles like the torp and cruise get an agility hit they will be even harder pressed to turn around and come back. Once drones are on the target the circle so you have an even bigger problem trying to hit them not to mention you'll be hitting yourself with your own splash damage (or damage from a buddy).
As for the bit about whining it is you who needs to leave the game and go lock yourself in a toy box and hide from the world. Apparently you cannot handle any change that might actually see your precious drones hurt. This whole suggestion is a way to bring mroe FUN to the game. Not just happily sit in your battelship pummeling things long range with big guns and creaming anything that gets close with drones. God forbid if you'd actually have to think about tactics and different loadouts for multiple possibilities. Don't hurt yourself thinking too hard...hate to fry the two neurons you have left.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 22:06:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 22/01/2004 22:07:56
Quote:
If you think that your 100k isk Frigate should have a chance solo on a 60M-110M Battleship, I would like to have some of what you have been smoking.
First, show me where I suggested any such thing.
Second, tell me how long you think it'd take a frigate to kill a battleship by itself in EVE. Even if the frigate gets its optimal range and the battleship does absolutley nothing but sit there as a target. Five minutes? Ten minutes? Now consider the same situation with a battleship actively defending itself with shield hardeners, shield boosters and so on (but not trying to shoot down the frigate) and recalculate (in some cases such as a shield tanked Scorp the answer is the frig will never kill the battleship...five probably couldn't). Finally consider a fully fighting battleship trying to kill the frigate except without drones.
The point of getting frigates and cruisers a chance to get in close to a battleship and survive for any reasonable amount of time is to make combined fleet battles worthwhile rather than only 20 battleship slugfests. All sorts of tactics could be used making for very interesting situations. Frigates zipping in to scramble/web a battleship or try to drain its capacitor. Cruisers defending the battleships from the frigates. Other cruisers trying to kill the cruisers attacking the frigates. Battleships trying to pound the snot out of other battleships long range. Sounds like great fun to me. Only reason it NEVER happens is because of drones and no good answer to them. The bottomline choice for battle in EVE is field as many battleships as you can because nothing else helps much (in the case of cruisers) or not at all (in the case of frigates).
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 23:08:00 -
[11]
Quote:
I swear, you hard core frig piolts just need to learn how to handle the drones.
Kestrel/Cruise/MWD
Thats all it takes. Use the MWD to keep the drones at more then 20km and then pick them off with the cruise, one missile each. Or you can have one frig draw them away. First frig attacks the throax then hits the mwd and leads the drones 100km from the battle then warps back. There drones are no long a problem.
Who ARE you fighting? I really want to know because apparently you've found battleship pilots who are complete idiots.
Do you REALLY think it is that easy? These are not NPCs to be 'drawn' away. Take my mate's Megathron for instance. If you sit out at 60km he'll rail your Kestrel into oblivion. If you sit at 20-30km his blasters will nail your Kestrel into oblivion...he won't even launch his drones in this case. Get within 10km to get 'under' his guns and out pop the drones. You'll be lucky to kill four of them and the other four will eat you alive and he will replace the four dead ones (if you managed that) with more from his drone bay.
In fact, I doubt you will kill four drones. I think a single cruise missile will not kill an Ogre and of course cruise don't have the same splash damage potential a torp does and a Kestrel can't carry torps anyway.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 23:15:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Why do I get the feeling everytime someone mentions mixed fleet battles they mean frigates ripping battleships a new one.
*sigh*
Some poeple on the boards seem to have a real problem with reading comprehension.
Where was it EVER suggested or implied in this thread by people supporting the idea of combined fleet battles that frigates should be able to "rip battleships a new one"?
How would the change I proposed in the original post in this thread (Defenders being able to target drones) allow frigates to own battleships?
Please re-read what I posted earlier.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.23 00:44:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 23/01/2004 00:50:07
Quote:
ok first off i didn't start this thread because i don't know how to play EVE i have gotten my a$$ handed to before from drones and i didn't go whine on a thread and hope CCP would make it all better
instead u can just train yourself to fly a ship(caldari) to counter the drones or just find a better set-up on your ship takes less than 2 neurons to figure this out
I didn't start this thread because I don't know how to play EVE. I've had my ass handed to me twice by drones. Once I was in a shuttle...the other time in a Caracal. In the shuttle I thought I'd make the gate...I was wrong. In the Caracal I landed under a JIP camp with 16 drones and 8 battleships and 1 cruiser (I think I still have the EVE mail listing them all). I was toast on that one drones or no drones (although the drones hit me up with horrendous lag but I'm not pretending those battleships wouldn't have creamed me no matter what).
Neither of those occasions prompted a thread from me *****ing about anything (those were many weeks ago...I didn't petition either as I got caught fair and square even if it did suck). I actually never use drones but I have many mates that do and via combat testing and watching them in action I have a healthy respect for what drones do.
So, I start a thread proposing a way I think EVE could be more fun. I have listed my reasons and reasoning. Many have replied honestly regardless of side and many have hauled off on petulant little rants.
If you want to try and make a better game that is more fun then help by adding something constructive (which does not mean you have to agree). Otheriwse go somewhere else if you want to engage in ad hominem attacks (go look it up). If you can manage to form a coherent argument on why I'm all wrong then have at it. If the best argument you can manage is, "WALK OVER TO YOUR TOY BOX AND PULL OUT SOME TOYS THAT YOU CAN CONTROL" then you really have nothing to say and are merely wasting bandwidth, electricity and probably air.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.23 06:47:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 23/01/2004 06:48:05
Quote:
Because youŠd make every raven and caracal out there the absolute anti-drone machine. After a change like this, there would still nobody be using frigates because caracals and ravens would do a much better job killing drones... before they switch to CMs and torps to back into their normal fighting habit.
Actually, they would be doing sucha good job at it that people simply stop using drones... and that shouldnŠt be something one should aim for when balancing stuff out.
Take note OmegaTron. This is a good response from someone who disagrees.
As for MaiLina's issues:
So what if every Raven and Caracal out there becomes an anit-drone machine? The same could be said for them being anti-missile machines. Nobody has issue with that.
If a Raven wants to be an anti-drone machine then fine. That means the Raven isn't missile spamming me.
This is a great example of the added thought that would have to go into your ship fittings. Does the Raven mount siege launchers and get horrid ROF on defenders loaded into it or do they go with standard launchers and give up using cruise (effectively as it can hold only one) and torps? Or split the difference with an H-50? When under attack what ammo do they now have to choose?
Also, remember that Defenders only have a 10km range. They won't be swatting drones down all over the place. Do you put a Caracal or Raven as drone defense on each ship you want protected? Probably not but maybe you can see the added options for battle this would give you.
Also remember that the Defenders not only would deal with drones but any incoming missiles. The way to beat Defenders is to overload their ability to defend so yet more tactical options.
Finally, Defenders go after the nearest target. I'm not entirely certain a Raven could ripple-fire 6 Defenders and expect to shoot down 6 drones. More likely 6 Defenders would zoom to one drone. Remaining Defenders might turn for other targets but Defenders have a very short lifespan...be lucky to shoot down 2 or 3 drones then wait for the launcher to recycle while the remaining 5 (or whatever) drones lay into you.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.23 18:15:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Idea:
Use ECM Jamming from a range of roughly 40-60km so he can't fire his big guns. Then fire a cruise at his drones if he deploys em. Problem with this is that we must be carrying the proper ECM equipment.
This can be done, but more then often we would like to sramble and web our openents, so then when he releases his drones we are toast. You'll be surprised how many battleship owners run away once they have their drones disabled and cant hit us for sh*t (either cus we r to close or cus we have em jammed).
That's the problem of course...jamming.
If you know what ship you will face you need at least three race specific jammers. If you don't you need 4 multispectral. This all assumes he doesn't have ECCM of course.
From 40-60km out he isn't going to deploy his drones anyway and especially not when he's jammed.
Now you send in your ships to attack him close range. IIRC drones auto-defend the mothership with no need for targetting. Bye-bye to your cruiser/frigate that is attacking close range.
Yes, with many ships doing many different things you can conceive of ways to get by drones but a large part depends on the other pilot's stupidity.
Why not get rid of Defenders altogether so my missiles can go after you? You can smartbomb them still or dodge them or even shoot them down with your guns (yes, missiles can be targetted). I can think of lots of ways for people to handle missiles without Defenders so I say toss them. Does that seem fair enough?
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.28 21:04:00 -
[16]
Quote:
looks like most agree on NOT making a defender missle for drone
I'd wager that it is due to most people replying here having battleships and not wanting to have what amounts to a huge advantage for them reduced in any fashion. God forbid anyone have to think tactically and worry about what multiple types of threats they may face rather than pretty much ignore anything other than another battleship.
What I am talking about here wouldn't even come close to negating drones. It owuld just throw a wrinkle in the scheme and allow for more variety and tactics rather than the only goal being to get a battleship because they do everything better and are largely immune to anything else.
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Mon Palae
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2004.01.28 21:04:00 -
[17]
Quote:
looks like most agree on NOT making a defender missle for drone
I'd wager that it is due to most people replying here having battleships and not wanting to have what amounts to a huge advantage for them reduced in any fashion. God forbid anyone have to think tactically and worry about what multiple types of threats they may face rather than pretty much ignore anything other than another battleship.
What I am talking about here wouldn't even come close to negating drones. It owuld just throw a wrinkle in the scheme and allow for more variety and tactics rather than the only goal being to get a battleship because they do everything better and are largely immune to anything else.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.28 21:12:00 -
[18]
Quote:
You guys all have some good ideas. here is what works for me
1. use speed reducing mods, if you cant reduce the drone speed by half that gives you a 100% adiitional fighting time
2. mines there flight path, when they are in a direct line following you
3. and now that there monuverability is afected heavy missles will hit now
4/. if you have power ECM will slow they down also a little
with this statergy i can shoot down 4 -5 drones before they even get a shot off
good luck
Mines? You are the first person I know who uses those. How they are effective against drones I don't see. A mine does what? 30 damage? An Ogre has, I think, 400hp. Good luck killing them with mines...not to mention mines take up a crapload of cargo space.
Speed reducing mods? You have to be within 10km to use that...drones will eb shooting at you. You also may have 8 drones to cope with. You can slow them all down? Even half down?
This also assumes the drone's controller is an idiot and just lets his drones go. If you run away or they start running over ines he can just call them back. And one would assume the drone ship is firing at you all the while.
I for one would REALLY like to see this in practice because I simply do not see it working at all.
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Mon Palae
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2004.01.28 21:12:00 -
[19]
Quote:
You guys all have some good ideas. here is what works for me
1. use speed reducing mods, if you cant reduce the drone speed by half that gives you a 100% adiitional fighting time
2. mines there flight path, when they are in a direct line following you
3. and now that there monuverability is afected heavy missles will hit now
4/. if you have power ECM will slow they down also a little
with this statergy i can shoot down 4 -5 drones before they even get a shot off
good luck
Mines? You are the first person I know who uses those. How they are effective against drones I don't see. A mine does what? 30 damage? An Ogre has, I think, 400hp. Good luck killing them with mines...not to mention mines take up a crapload of cargo space.
Speed reducing mods? You have to be within 10km to use that...drones will eb shooting at you. You also may have 8 drones to cope with. You can slow them all down? Even half down?
This also assumes the drone's controller is an idiot and just lets his drones go. If you run away or they start running over ines he can just call them back. And one would assume the drone ship is firing at you all the while.
I for one would REALLY like to see this in practice because I simply do not see it working at all.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.29 02:17:00 -
[20]
Quote:
What this is all about is you wanting to take a frigate into to the fray of several battleships spewing forth insane damage, and survive cause you got implants. Tactics, variation and whatever my rear end, that's already there.
Where did I say any such thing?
Where did I even imply any such thing?
What the hell are schools teaching people these days? Certainly not reading comprehension or critical thinking skills.
Call your local Board of Education and demand a do-over for 5th grade and up.
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Mon Palae
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2004.01.29 02:17:00 -
[21]
Quote:
What this is all about is you wanting to take a frigate into to the fray of several battleships spewing forth insane damage, and survive cause you got implants. Tactics, variation and whatever my rear end, that's already there.
Where did I say any such thing?
Where did I even imply any such thing?
What the hell are schools teaching people these days? Certainly not reading comprehension or critical thinking skills.
Call your local Board of Education and demand a do-over for 5th grade and up.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.30 18:00:00 -
[22]
Quote:
1) smartbombs
2) Torpedo's
3) cruise missle's
if u don't know how to use these 3 items of EVE to defend yourself against drones then u shouldn't be playing IF u do not have any of these 3 items with u when 8 or 10 drones r on your tail then i suggest u turn around and warp away. Its called "COMMONSENSE"something u should have learned from day 1 of your birth
1) Smartbombs: Only medium or bigger smartbombs are remotely effective against drones and medium barely so. M-sbombs have I think a 4km radius...drones shoot from much further. Further, at best, you will do 100 points of damage every 10 seconds. Against an Ogre it will take you 40 seconds minimum to kill them with a single m-sbomb...you'll be dead from 8 drones long before that. In short, s-bombs are mostly useless against drones except on a battleship. An L-Sbomb is pretty useful but with a 1250 powergrid fitting requirement forget about stuffing it on anything but a battleship.
2) Torpedoes: First it takes forever to get a lock on drones. Second, no frigate or cruiser can target lock 8 anything at once (well...maybe with an appropriate mod but mostly never and definitely never for a frigate). Third, frigates cannot carry torpedoes. Fourth, CCP is nerfing torps and cruise so they cannot hit frigates and given droens are even smaller and more nimble it is reasonable to assume they won't hit drones either. That leaves heavy missiles at best and even they may have trouble with the agility nerf missiles will get. It will take 3 heavy missiles to kill one Ogre. So 24 missiles shot minimum to take down 8 heavy drones. Good luck...
3) Cruise Missiles: See point #2 above as it mostly applies to this as well.
As for Defenders managing the trick they can fit easily into an Assault Launcher (3 I believe). With a 3 second firing rate even a ship with 2 can throw one on average once every 1.5 seconds up to 6 total before having to reload. With a range of roughly 20km it becomes a dance of when to use them vs. when the drone controller puts them out and so on.
What is really interesting is the number of people looking for more ways to 'autotarget' missiles and kill them with things like point-defense turrets. Missiles will be getting a nerf soon it seems, people can use defenders against them as well as s-bombs yet most any frigate pilot and many cruiser pilots will tell you drones are far more dangerous. Go figure...
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Mon Palae
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2004.01.30 18:00:00 -
[23]
Quote:
1) smartbombs
2) Torpedo's
3) cruise missle's
if u don't know how to use these 3 items of EVE to defend yourself against drones then u shouldn't be playing IF u do not have any of these 3 items with u when 8 or 10 drones r on your tail then i suggest u turn around and warp away. Its called "COMMONSENSE"something u should have learned from day 1 of your birth
1) Smartbombs: Only medium or bigger smartbombs are remotely effective against drones and medium barely so. M-sbombs have I think a 4km radius...drones shoot from much further. Further, at best, you will do 100 points of damage every 10 seconds. Against an Ogre it will take you 40 seconds minimum to kill them with a single m-sbomb...you'll be dead from 8 drones long before that. In short, s-bombs are mostly useless against drones except on a battleship. An L-Sbomb is pretty useful but with a 1250 powergrid fitting requirement forget about stuffing it on anything but a battleship.
2) Torpedoes: First it takes forever to get a lock on drones. Second, no frigate or cruiser can target lock 8 anything at once (well...maybe with an appropriate mod but mostly never and definitely never for a frigate). Third, frigates cannot carry torpedoes. Fourth, CCP is nerfing torps and cruise so they cannot hit frigates and given droens are even smaller and more nimble it is reasonable to assume they won't hit drones either. That leaves heavy missiles at best and even they may have trouble with the agility nerf missiles will get. It will take 3 heavy missiles to kill one Ogre. So 24 missiles shot minimum to take down 8 heavy drones. Good luck...
3) Cruise Missiles: See point #2 above as it mostly applies to this as well.
As for Defenders managing the trick they can fit easily into an Assault Launcher (3 I believe). With a 3 second firing rate even a ship with 2 can throw one on average once every 1.5 seconds up to 6 total before having to reload. With a range of roughly 20km it becomes a dance of when to use them vs. when the drone controller puts them out and so on.
What is really interesting is the number of people looking for more ways to 'autotarget' missiles and kill them with things like point-defense turrets. Missiles will be getting a nerf soon it seems, people can use defenders against them as well as s-bombs yet most any frigate pilot and many cruiser pilots will tell you drones are far more dangerous. Go figure...
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.02.01 10:42:00 -
[24]
Quote:
yess a thorax with 8 drones is going to eat you're frigite formation...THAT IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO. and YES the battleships drones will eat you if you're stupid
Everything in the game should have a counter. Drones have no good counter to them. Yes, they can be killed currently with torpedoes or FoF missiles but missiles have a serious nerf on the near horizon. What is already difficult to manage now will become doubly as hard at least when the nerf to missiles occurs.
Does it not strike you as having things a bit askew in EVE when it takes 2 cruise missiles to kill a Frigate and it take 2 cruise missiles to kill a single drone? Drones are supposed to be the equivalent of fighters yet they come close to equaling a frigate in both offense and defense (as a practical matter...take longer to target lock and yes they are weaker but when it takes two cruise missiles to kill either what's the difference really?).
Drones should not equal frigates yet they damn near do. They are supposed to equate to fighters...not frigate analogues.
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Mon Palae
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2004.02.01 10:42:00 -
[25]
Quote:
yess a thorax with 8 drones is going to eat you're frigite formation...THAT IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO. and YES the battleships drones will eat you if you're stupid
Everything in the game should have a counter. Drones have no good counter to them. Yes, they can be killed currently with torpedoes or FoF missiles but missiles have a serious nerf on the near horizon. What is already difficult to manage now will become doubly as hard at least when the nerf to missiles occurs.
Does it not strike you as having things a bit askew in EVE when it takes 2 cruise missiles to kill a Frigate and it take 2 cruise missiles to kill a single drone? Drones are supposed to be the equivalent of fighters yet they come close to equaling a frigate in both offense and defense (as a practical matter...take longer to target lock and yes they are weaker but when it takes two cruise missiles to kill either what's the difference really?).
Drones should not equal frigates yet they **** near do. They are supposed to equate to fighters...not frigate analogues.
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